Hey everybody, welcome back to this week's episode, I'm going to veer off a little bit from the normal of my interviews that I do with therapist, psychologist and other mental health professionals and bring us back to something that I also always do on this show, which is to share the story of survivors. Now, survivor stories are very important in this realm of healing from trauma and becoming trauma informed, because surviving is where the rubber meets the road, where the techniques, the modalities, and the therapy is actually tested by the people that are, you know, using it on a day to day basis. And who we are is we're all unique creatures, our lived experiences are one of a kind, our DNA is one of a kind. And so therefore, how we get from broken to thriving is not going to be the same for everyone. So I have with me on the show today, Eric Allen, and he's an entrepreneur and a podcaster, who has a niche in the MMA, which is, I haven't talked about that yet on the show. And he actually has two podcasts that he does. One's called the Eric Allen show, where he interviews guests, and he shares their journeys. And he also has top rated MMA, and we'll talk about that in here, where you he gives behind the scenes views of these athletes that are actually in the MMA. Now, what I'm interested in learning from Eric, and I'm sharing with you guys is about his healing journey through his Christian faith. Because as you the listeners may recall, some of us have experienced trauma that came from a religious background or religious structure, either in reinforcing shame or stigmas, or controlling behaviors, and some people have chosen to leave the religion behind in order for them to move forward and heal. But for Eric, it was staring in the face that made the difference. And so I want to share that journey with you all, too. And so welcome to the show today, Eric,

thank you so much. This is awesome. Such a great opportunity. I really appreciate you.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, you know, your name popped up, you know, as I'm always keeping my eyes and ears open for guests and people to bring on with the program. And I you know, like I said, I do have people that sometimes reach out to me that want to share their story. And my and we all have great stories to share. And I wish I could tell everybody's journey, because I think that when we're trauma survivors, again, one of the effects of that is believing that we're alone. And so when people have a chance to, and want to honestly put their their story out there it is. It's it's therapeutic in the sense. And I know, I know this from my own experience is because it allows me to connect because part of the trauma is not being able to connect with people, or being cut off or neglected or whatever. And so, like I said, I wish I could tell everybody's stories. And so sometimes people will send me emails just to share their story, because it is a part of us being able to heal in relationships with other people and validation, you know that what happened to us wasn't our mistake, it wasn't our fault, or, you know, whatever. But I do want to always make sure that when I do share a story, that I'm bringing a new perspective, and that at the end of the story, that this person's journey has something that someone else will be able to carry on in their life, meaning that either they're, they're providing a service, or they have another outlet or an outreach or they they're, they're intentionally building community so that other people can, can feel and come into that. And so, you know, having you on today, you're not a therapist, you don't do a bunch of coaching programs for people healing from you know, and I've had those survivors on there, you've got a slightly different way. But I think what you do and what you offer is just as you know, as validating and important to So, thank you. So let's start with your journey. Let's start you're very open and upfront about coming from like a really crappy childhood. Like a lot of people. Totally Yeah, I

mean, I thought it was a normal childhood. You know, it's a Sunday school played Little League, my dad would take my best friend Dave, and I literally throw some dumpsters behind, you know, big stores. And that was a typical Saturday morning, go find treasure, you know, that was it. But my parents got divorced at 11 years old. I didn't even know what a divorce was. I had no idea prior to that, you know, what was going on. And my mom got together with a guy who was very physically abusive almost immediately. And I just thought that was the weirdest thing that she would never press charges. And then she continued to stay with him. So I remember like, you know, being outside of the house peeking through their window when they're arguing and he'd be hitting or the cordless phone, you know, it's just weird to me. And she ended up getting getting pregnant. And so they did the smart thing. And they moved all of us out from Washington State out to small town, stevensville Montana population, 1200 people and five acres beautiful property and they rent to this house and this house had three bedrooms. There's room for them, and room for my brother who's just a couple months old in a room for my sister. And they live as an heir here live in the garage. And so my garage, I mean, my room literally had this black tarp at the end of my bed that separated my bed from the truck that pulled in my half of the garage had a fireplace in it. They kept me warm most of the night during the winters when it would get to negative degrees. But yeah, that's where I lived. And so I was 13 years old brush my teeth one night they came home Argan wasn't anything Different than any other night. But I believe that God was speaking to me in that moment as I was brushing my teeth and he's like, Man, you got to turn around to go look around and see what's going on. And so the way the house was set up was behind it was the kitchen to the pantry to the garage door to that led to my room. And so I kind of turned around the corner and I saw on top of my mom, just boom, boom, boom, one shot after the other. Like, man, I gotta get this guy off. So I stuck up behind him and I grabbed a cast iron pan, the big heavy duty ones you take with a camping and I swung as hard as I could, and I split the back of his head open. And it didn't knock him out. He turned around and he said, What then is he said that I took another swing and split his forehead open. And in that moment, I'd hit him so hard, I'd actually fallen over and he was so drunk, it did not knock him out. He was standing up over me at this point yelling, my mom jumps up lands, like six punches and road was faced blood splats on the wall, cops came take him to jail for the night. Again, no charges were pressed. I was actually kicked out of the house at that point at three months left my freshman year high school. So I just bounced around between friends, couches and floors the next few months before moving back to Washington State. And that led me on this path of destruction for the next 10 years of my life.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, of course, I mean, you know, that's a that's a terrible thing to have to deal with and go through. And I mean, you know, we think in the moment, I remember this, and I've got teenagers right now, I don't know how old your kids are, but mine are 16. And, you know, My son will be 19 in a couple of weeks. And, you know, I remember parenting them and at 13 years old, and you're just like, they're not adults, yet. They're still kids, they think they're adults, right? Like, I remember being 13 thing, and I know everything I'm done, like, you know, this adult thing, because because we've grown in stature to an adult size. Right? And, and our thoughts are changing and stuff like that. But the reality is, is that that's a prime very important time, you know, in a child's life, that they're still children and to be to be put in a situation like that, of seeing that violence and to actually have to take place, you know, to be in the violence. Yeah, it's not good on the psyche, or the brain and then to be rejected. And I'm surprised, you know, a lot of times abusers don't show up as abusers right from the get go. And so for this person to have the audacity to start beating everybody, like, you know, sooner than later is just that's that's unsettling and shocking. Yep. You know, in itself. So, I mean, you know, you end up being kicked out of your house at 13 years old. Couch Surfing around the area, and then you come back to Washington to live with your dad, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, he rented this house for him and I and he would put 20 bucks in a cup for my lunch money for the week. And then he'd fill the freezer with hunger, man meals and cereal milk in the fridge. And then he goes, stayed at night with his girlfriend. And I would maybe see my dad a few times a month, all through high school. So sophomore through senior year, that was the case. It rarely saw my dad. And what that did was it opened up, you know, the door for me to do get into drugs and get an alcohol at no accountability, no adult supervision. I had a job at McDonald's was my first job. But like I you know, I was very irresponsible at the time looking back, I'm like, Alright, you know, it's fun times, but I was getting high before school hide at lunch, I was getting high after school, acid mushrooms, you know, weed, whatever I could get my hands on even to the point of taking Dexter morphine, cough syrup, because it would give me the same hallucinations that acid would but it was half the cost. You know, like, I've just got deep into it. And when I was 18 years old, I was a senior in high school and I got arrested for having a bomb, which is now legal in the state of Washington. But at the time, it wasn't. And I had to go to jail and black and white Jing Chang gang outfit on bright orange slippers. You know, I wrote I literally wrote a note, hey, staying at Danny's house to my dad, because I knew that he would never check on me. So I went to jail Friday night check myself and got out on Saturday didn't tell my dad for probably 10 years that I actually was arrested, put in jail. But I put me on probation for a year so I could smoke pot for a year. But what I did was enhanced my drinking. And then two weeks after I graduated high school, I woke up to note on my mirror that said you can't comply with house rules, you have 48 hours to get out. And so at that point, I again kind of couch surf between the ages of 18 and 21. I moved to 21 different places, moved to Seattle with$100 in my pocket, wanted to get in the music business and landed a job with Universal Records after a while and that just opened up the door more because I was able to go to free concerts two to three concerts a week had open tabs that this two year span or probably went to about 175 concerts and just, you know, live this crazy life. I was living off of credit cards. And by the time I'm 21 I was$20,000 in debt. You know, it's pretty crazy.

Yeah, that's a lot. You know. And I you know, did you feel like you were in pain at that time? Or did you feel like you were just like you had a dream life because you got to do whatever you want. You didn't have any parents in your life and like, yeah, it's a big party. Yeah,

I felt like it was a big party for the longest time. I really wasn't until I was probably about 23 years old. You know, you know, when I was 21 and had been that much doubt I ended up filing bankruptcy. But like probably when I was 23 years old is when it really started to hit like, Man, what am I doing? I remember this Very specific moment, I was at a concert at the showbox in downtown Seattle when it was open, show it to us. And it's such a great venue. And I was working for universal. And I was in my early 20s. And there was a girl who was a music rep that was probably in her mid 30s. And nothing wrong to her. But I remember this moment looking at going, I don't want to be her age, doing this every night away from my family. And that was the moment that stuck in my head. I'm like, Man, what am I doing. And about probably six months later, I was laid off from Universal Records. During the Napster days when it killed the music industry. A lot of people don't realize that. But that was I got laid off. And it kind of put me in this depression where I was working at Starbucks at night. And I'd get off work I go to, you know, the grocery store, grab a six pack of beer, go to Hollywood video and grab me a movie. And then back to my ghetto apartment across the street from where Jimi Hendrix was buried out there in Renton and would drink myself to sleep every night. And one night this girl walked into Starbucks, who doesn't drink coffee and said, Hey, we got this cool college event down at our church, would you be ever interested in going? Me being depressed? Having no friends in her very good looking? Yeah, hey, absolutely. I'm gonna go, you know, and I got down there. And there's all these guys that I knew from high school like, man, I haven't seen you for five years. I haven't seen you in six years. You know, like, this weird connection. I think God was kind of planting seeds in that moment. And about a month later is Easter 2004. And I was managing a band, we went out and played a concert and woke up at Easter morning about 5am my buddy's basements run about probably 15 other guys. And in that moment, I felt God say, Man, you're done. You're going down this road of destruction that's going to end quickly if you don't start making some changes. And I gave my life to Christ in that basement right there. And I quit cold turkey drugs, drinking cigarettes, everything from there. And I called that girl up and I got her voicemail and I just said, hey, maybe I'll see the store. Thanks for inviting coaches, but Happy Easter. And about a month later we're dating and now we've been married for almost 17 years.

Oh, I just got goosebumps.

Were actually born in exactly 1:41pm documented our birth certificates different days over years, but the exact same minute.

Oh, wow. That's pretty cool.

World Record I tried to see if it would be but it's

there's nothing that that amazing about it. Right? It's on as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about like, You're such you've had such the quintessential like Seattle experience Starbucks music, everything that's in like, the Gen X realm of you know, because I moved out to Seattle, because of music not 1000 like I wasn't an artist or anything, but I love it. The poster behind me for people watching videos, an homage to Bikini Kill, which is a you know, Riot girl act that came out of the Seattle Olympia area. Yeah. And so you know, the whole, like, going to all and seeing all the bands as they came and went and stuff like that, like, yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty cool. And, uh, you know, and I asked about the the moment because I think that sometimes when we look back in time, you know, we, we don't, we don't feel the pain that we were clearly going through at the time. I mean, when you look back, like now at your age, right and my age, and we go, Jesus, you're a 13 year old kid, you're struggling, you were coping, you were, you know, and I'm not a therapist, everybody. Y'all know that. But you know, I mean, we know, we know, we start to learn ourselves, like, you know, the dissociation, you know, that we do the risk taking that we take on, because we got to feel something, right. Like, in the absence of loving parents, you're just you're searching for feeling. And that feeling is, I'm going to just go for the most extreme things that I can find. I'm either going to get it through drugs, or sex, or music or alcohol or whatever, because I don't have anybody around me right now, that actually makes me feel like I matter. You know. And that's, I mean, in the end, when you look back, you're like, Man, I'm sad for you. I'm sad for that. That young man that you were in that boy that you were in that's that was the experience that you had.

I mean, it That's tough. It was crazy. I mean, I looking back now I'm like, man, I would I don't regret going through the things because I think it made me the man that I am today. You know, like I guy that I follow and my life he talks about, you know, life happens for us, not to us. And, you know, I just think that looking back, yeah, it sucked in those moments, but man right now, I definitely feel like I don't think I would be the same person had I had a different life.

Yeah, absolutely. And then that's why, you know, I that's what I love about you and your story. And why well, we'll keep talking and sharing this with you is, is that that's a huge benefit and value and resilience when you can actually look and have peace with the journey that we've been on. Because it allows us to then be able to share and hopefully help other people because not everybody has such a peaceful past, you know, or peace with their past. You know, they're still beating themselves up and struggling with it today and still feeling shame. You know, for things that happened, like, you know, did you drive your dad out of the house? Of course, you didn't do that, right. But some people actually still believe that their behaviors and their misbehaviors you know, are their fault.

Yeah, shame is such a triggering thing. I think it hurts so bad, like I'm 41. Now I didn't share my story public. clean towels 39. So I just held on to that forever and just kind of dealt with it and, and said, Oh, no, I'll just, you know, shove it in the back of my mind. And it didn't really affect me as an adult, or, you know, or anything like that. But then once I released it when I was 39, man, it was such a huge weight off my shoulders. But up until that point, I was like, man, do I release this story? Do I tell people about this? Right, you know, and, but I it's been such a huge blessing that I was able to release that. And I've just gotten a lot of great feedback and be able to connect with so many people due to that.

So let's talk about then the, you know, again, there's so many different ways that people get to a place of where they finally are able to work through and rewire you know, and, and adopt different behaviors and belief systems about themselves and stuff like that. Like I said, some people use cognitive behavioral therapy, they go to therapy. For you, it was giving into this feeling that you had in this, in giving it to God and to Christ. What What did you do then once you did that, like what what were that? What were the steps on your journey that helped you went cold turkey stay on this path? feel like you're, you're becoming whole, you know, again, as an adult?

Yeah, it's a great question. Because I think what happened was I what I Well, I know what happened, what, but what I did was I ended up talking all my buddies, the band manager, and all of the guys that I was out partying with, and I said, Hey, for me, I got to take a step away from it's not a healthy route for me to be in isn't an environment for me to be in, that's going to keep me healthy, I'm going down a really bad path, I needed to kind of take a break. And surprisingly, all of them were like, dude, get better get better for yourself, like, you know, get healthy. And when you're ready, we're here. And I'm still friends with those guys today, which is really cool. But I did, I took about a six month break of hanging out with guys who I was going to the bar with hanging around or even contacting anybody that I was out in that environment with. And what I did was I replaced that with reading books, I'd never really read books before I started reading, like crazy. I was reading like a book a week, just on growing spirituality and growing closer to God. And without even realizing that I was interviewing people, I started like finding people in the church that had great marriages, and that had great walks with Christ and, and were living the successful business life and things like that. And I would take them out to coffee, Hey, can I just take out to coffee, I just want to like, pick your brain and kind of find out the steps it took you to get to where you're at today. And so I started doing that once a week, I was taking someone else out. And you know, I was taking out youth pastors and pastors and just take him out to coffee and just really understanding things of like, Alright, this is the this is what I should be doing to kind of realize that, hey, this shame what happened in the past, it doesn't have to define my future. And I can make this change at any point. And so I really just deep dived in mentally to go, okay, whatever happened in the past, it's over, I can't change it. But I can change my future right now. Starting today, boom, and then just started really just taking notes and soaking up as much as I could.

Right. Right. So using the people around you to support you, but also as models so that you had something to draw off of which clearly, again, going back through, you know, your own childhood, you didn't have a model yet until, you know, you were able to find them through I mean, the are the models that you had weren't the ones, you know, that were working for you right, Totally, yeah. So to be you know, just to make sure that we were covering all of this, I will say my experience with religion is not is not bad. So I'm not going to you know, I don't have like a, I don't have a hostile negative mindset or anything towards it. But it is limited. I have family that, you know, my grandparents went to church, you know, every Sunday and had good friends that were actually were Episcopal, which is like Catholicism light, you know, it's I that's kind of like, you know, anyways, so they would go to church. My mom, on the other hand, was the only go to church on the holidays, and then make like a huge deal of it. And finally, I just was like sick of this hypocrisy, because what I saw was I saw what was talked about, and the the nature of the words, you know, but then I saw the the hypocrisy and the conflict with people actually following through. And to me, it was like, Okay, I don't need to show up and go to an organized meeting, when you know, nobody's really I mean, this just feels like we're filling in our time for the, you know, hope that we go to heaven or whatever other you know, eternal promise that we have coming for us. But I got better things to do with my time. If it means living a good person, I'm going to go live a good person, I don't need the confines and the structure, you know, of religion. So when people talk about it, that it becomes like a very deep part of their life on a day to day, I have to admit, that's not something that I'm familiar with. So when you you mentioned the reason why I'm asking this, as you mentioned, walking with Christ, what does that mean for anybody else that's listening to that, because when I hear that, it just sounds like jargon. Yeah. I mean, I could be talking about Microsoft's latest product or Apple's latest product. I mean, those are just words, right? Yeah, I know. It sounds like jargon. So describe it for this person to understand that they're searching for community and wondering if this might be the community for them. What does it mean when you say a person He walks with Christ.

You know, I think for me, and it's different for everybody. And I think as I'm a Christian nondenominational church, but I think Christians can be like you mentioned, probably some of the biggest hypocrites and biggest judgers I've ever seen or come across in my life. And I think if people just realize that hey, you know what, we should just love people where they're at. And then the rest of God will take care of the rest, you know, whatever, whatever their life is, like I don't need to judge them for based off political or sexual preference or anything like that. That's not my job. My job is just to love people where they're at. And so I think when when with the walk in Christ for me, it's when I wake up I open my eyes, there's when right there I get to live another day, there's when number one I jump out of bed, I make my bed there's two wins and 15 seconds, it's gonna be an awesome day. And so then what I do is I have this personal goal to make one person smile virtually or in person every single day. And so I come upstairs after I you know, do my shower thing and I have this vision wall and I look through my vision wall my goals, my liquidation, my family, you know what I want to be like things like that. And then I turn on some worship music. And really worship music could be for anything like I there's Christian bands that are like heavy metal screamo bands, that I love that I can really connect with God listening to them. And then there's like, the soft like, worship music. So for me,

Stryper, I think is one of them, weren't they? Right, yeah,

I actually saw those guys live back in the day my dad took me to see it was amazing. But you know, like, yeah, I mean, so I get up and I turn on some worship music. And again, it could be for, you know, whatever genre you want. But I like a lighter music in the morning. And for me, I just have to spend time, close my eyes. And I'm like, Alright, God, thank you for this day, I think and for my family, what I have health, blessings, all of that. And for me, I don't really like to spend a lot of time asking for things. I just say, Hey, man, I'm thank you for this. I'm thankful for this. And yeah, and I'll, you know, pray for some health and other things like that. But if I can be consistent with that, I think that's what that walk in Christ means for me is just being consistently touching base with God said, Hey, man, thank you so much for what I've got, give me the opportunities to be able to share some love with people today. For me, that's my, that's what walk in Christ is about.

No, and that's fantastic. Because as I'm listening to it, I'm hearing you know, so many things that we know actually are really beneficial to the human brain and one of them is xebia ability to express gratitude, that there is a there is a neurobiology not to break down the wisdom in the in the spirituality of it, but there is a neurobiological benefit when we can, when we can bring our thoughts to things that we're thankful for things that we're grateful for, it actually spurs on more of the happy chemicals literally in our body, and to keep flooding us with that. And that sometimes that's what we have to practice when we're feeling particularly low is that we have to think, man, you know, one thing I saw on the show the secret, you know, talks about, you know, the great wisdom that's out there, but was a gratitude stone. And so I have this little box of stones where it's a reminder in your pocket to when you feel it, to think of something you're grateful for right now. Because it's really the It's a trick to be able to get the biology to be able to produce the chemicals that you need. And and those are real honest, you know, things that you know, definitely have benefit. Yeah, um, you know, I, I've met other people that don't go to church, but this, but have a belief in a higher power. And here's the thing that were I, I do I say, I leave space for miracles. Sure. So well, I don't go to church, it's hard for me to not sit there and be grateful for the, you know, the universe, karma, you know, some other higher power that I, that I do actually like to believe exists out there. And I and I think that for me, it is this idea that at the end of the day, I want to believe something out there cares about my existence, wants me to be successful. And even if I'm running into something that's hard, the belief that there's a purpose to that also, and like you said, like our journeys, our journeys, and that there's a there's a benefit to us that we will be wiser stronger, you know, more loving, more empathetic, more compassionate. And so I think higher power is something that people like to identify, like, you know, yeah, you know, whether it's God or you know, any other name that you want to be able to put on it. Like I said, I call it the universe, but I think we're talking about the same thing.

Yeah, I agree. And you know, there's a book called you're a badass and if people haven't read that series that they should definitely go check that out. But Jensen, Sarah, who wrote those books, she talks about the same thing. She's she doesn't like the word God, but she likes the word universe or higher power or man upstairs, like she kind of rotates him around. But I think she kind of talks about the same stuff, you know, but like I said, I think whatever is is for each personal person, like you want to call them God or higher power, whatever that is, I think, if that's what helps you kind of get on this path of for your own journey. I think that's, that's what's most important,

for sure. Now, the other thing that I do like also about the community of, you know, of a church is that it's community and And like I said earlier, you know, we do heal in relationships, even if we are, we've learned to be independent people, you know, we reregulate each other and the more positive people that are doing the same things or believe in sharing that love back and forth actually does heal us even more. So, then plowing through and going to therapy, you know, on a weekly basis. Did you? Have you found the same thing with you, in your experience? And in your church?

Yeah, I mean, I've gotten some some bills, gotten to build some great relationships with other men in our, in our church and just understand, like, you know, their struggles as married men, and just a single guys, and even, you know, just as, as couples, you know, we've my wife, and I've been in both men's groups, women's groups, and then you know, a couple of groups and stuff like that. And I think we've both grown tremendously being in small groups, that small community is great, I love going to like men camp, it's, you know, men camp over the weekend, and we go, you know, throw axes and shoot guns, and go fishing and stuff like that. And it's just this cool time to connect with other guys. And I built some great relationships, just doing activities with other guys like that. And so I think it is, it is great to have that community.

Know, I talk a lot about men's mental health on the show, because men in the Gen X generation are the largest group of people that die by suicide every year, and it's growing. And, and some of that is having a lack of support, you know, either at home or at work or in their life of experiencing traumas or anything like that, that may have happened in their past and not having the ability to have worked through it or understood it or whatever. What have what's been your experience with other men, like I love the fact that you like to, you know, really spend some time with other men, but what do men think when you talk about, you know, mental health? You know, is it challenging?

I think it can be, I think a lot of guys, the majority of guys, I personally know, they that are in that church community, they are pretty open to it. But then you talk to guys that are outside of the church community that there may not, they may not be so open to sharing their stories. And that's part of the thing with my podcasts when I talk with folks is, you know, like to ask them about that, like, what was their childhood? Like? Where did they grow up? Things like that. And most of them, probably, well, I've never had anybody say, Well, I don't want to talk about that. But you know, like, I've, I like to kind of dig that out to them, because I dig that out from them. Because a lot of times maybe they're not talking too much about it and talk with fighters and entrepreneurs, you hear guys talk about that, that mental side, that mental struggle of getting through pain, getting through failure, things like that feeling like we're being judged. I think that's a lot of everywhere and in the way that we get out of that is in a community. So go and whether that's a church community, our business network community, or, you know, podcasting community or something like that, just being around other people can really lift you up, like Ed, my lead says, you know, if you're walking around at five degrees, go walk around with guys that are walking around at 185. And just being in their presence is going to lift you up and, and boost your mentality and boost that mental strength just being in their presence. So, I mean, I think that's the way that that that we get out of that as men and women.

Yeah, I agree. Um, you know, and thinking about the fact that the more you know, people, especially men that speak up, and it's safe to do that, I think that, you know, again, there's, I'd like to think that in this world, there's still fewer and fewer people that feel like they need to shame other people for having feelings, right? I mean, that's one of the things that I mean, we can all remember, you know, the idea of like, you know, men being told not to be pussies, you know, to be tougher and stronger by not crying by not, you know, and women on the other hand, we've dealt with the same types of stereotypes that it's, you know, very unladylike for us to be mad about something, you know, one of the first things I had to tell people is I have a right to be mad, like, it's a very honest, real feeling here. And so let me let me be angry, you know, for a minute about about this whole thing. Do you think that, you know, the more that you've been able to get other people open up that you've seen more men being able to feel like that they can get past that stigma? in the community? Do you still see that there's, you know, there's still people that feel like they're gonna be shamed or bullied, you know, if they actually say I'm struggling, or like, you know, I hurt or I care about this.

Yeah, I think the majority of guys that I've talked to, I'm probably actually all I would say is they're really open to it. And I've heard, you know, throughout their business journey, or their fighter journey, you know, people are gonna judge me for getting into a cage and going to fight someone else, or is falling gonna judge me if I start this business? You know, it's funny, because, you know, I've seen the thing like when when you post on Facebook, that you got this new job, you know, people were like, Yeah, but then if you go to start this new business, and you get like, maybe four likes, and it's like, well, I don't really care about that, and then you go to fail, and it's like, See, I told you so. Right like that. That's sort of judgment and men, especially if we want to hold back from putting that out there sometimes, like, hey, I've got this business idea because we do feel that that we could be judged. But I think at the same time, like if men and the majority of them that I've talked to you are open about that, it encourages other men to be open and hopefully we can build this community just in you know, the people I've been on my show and shows that I've been a guest on hopefully men will look at that go, man, maybe I should open up. I don't need to be so rough and tough all the time there can be these times where I'm more open to just, you know, hearing other conversations and sharing my story.

Right, right. Well, and for the listeners, if you're not actually watching the video, Eric looks about as rough and tough as they get even though he's not. But you know, and I think that, you know, of course, we all judge him bias, you know, against people based on you, we judge books by the cover, right? And so, you know, I think that it's, it's fascinating also that you're in the the MMA fields, like did you ever fight mixed martial arts?

I didn't, I did a little bit karate and boxing when I was growing up. I never competed or anything like that. I just, man. Okay, I was gonna

say what attracted to you? Yeah, so I mean, tell me then how a non you know, MMA fighter, though goes like, I'm gonna totally just be into this, like, you know, I mean, like, I want to hear that too.

Well, I sort of grew up watching like pay per view, Mike Tyson fights all the time, my dad would get those fights. But the other cool thing my dad did was he would rent movies. When I was a kid that were not English. They were just just ninja movies. And it was like crazy ninjas. I didn't understand what they're saying. But it was just ninja movies and, and just the action parts of it and things. And then I think I was a ninja for Halloween for like, 15 years straight. Like, you know, I just I've always been a fan of combat sports I've ever been a first grade. And I never let my kids do this now. But you know, first grade might be my cousin, small town Prosser, Washington, we'd walk like a mile into town, and we'd go rent UFC one and two on VHS, and we'd go back to the house and watch that and really early age. So I've just always been this fan of the fight game. And it's cool to see it's evolved into more a much more respectful sport than it was back in the early days. So yeah, that's that's kind of I think, what started my journey down there. My dad always took me to like WWF events when it was actually called WTF. So you know, a lot of wrestling and Ninja and all that stuff. So I think that's what inspired me to go this route.

Well, cool. Well, and so let's now talk about then the the two shows that you do. Because like I said, You've got two programs. One is the top rated MMA and the other one is called the Eric Allen show, what's the difference between both of those programs.

So top rated may actually started, I was an apparel company in 2012, my wife and I decided that we wanted to try getting into the shirt game of him amaze, which is during the tapout days, and we didn't put a business plan together, we had no idea what we're doing. We just bought a bunch of inventory and didn't sell it. And I thought, hey, it'll be the next biggest thing made it so much. So many mistakes. I think I donated probably 80 shirts to Hurricane Katrina, victims way back in the day. But you know, so it started out as this clothing company. And then in 2015, I got bored actually put an ad in Craigslist and said, Who wants to buy this company for a few grand and this guy called me up, it was gonna offer me I think 3000 for the name and the followers and all that. And in that call, I decided that I wasn't ready to quit yet. So I spent the next year kind of just barely having the business up and running. And in 2017, I launched the top rated a podcast, I had no idea what I was doing. I just wanted to talk to guys and say, Why do you want to get punched in the face. And that was my main objective for starting the podcast. And I've heard everything from I was in karate in a transition to I have a felony offense, I can't get a real job. But I go fight people put food on the table for my kids. It was just cool. And that's sort of evolved into Alright, now we're really want to get these real fighters real stories, like how did they get to the word that what's that mental struggle that they have to fight. And so now we're 238 episodes in humbly considered the number one MMA podcast out here in the Northwest. And it comes out every single Saturday. And I talked with up and coming fighters from around the world. And that, you know, some pros, but a lot of them are these amateur fighters, early pro fighters just trying to get a name for themselves.

And I and I like that you do that? Because that's, you know, that's one of the hardest things right is exposure, and especially in a sport where sponsors also play into it, and fans grow you and everything, you know, being able to get your name out there. So I think that's really great that you do that. And then you're able to also, you know, like you said, You know, sometimes we all have these unders, you know, we think we know the world just because we've seen a few clips on, you know, the news or whatever. And, you know, it can be hard to understand why would somebody choose to go in and punish themselves and fight like that. And we have, you know, somebody can come up with, like, you know, they're violent people, or they're whatever. And so I love that you actually share the stories so that we actually have an understanding of the choices that people make to do that, because it expands our, our worldview of humans, you know, more just, yeah,

I was gonna say, I mean, I agree. I mean, I think that in fighters, I've met a lot of fighters, both professional, big names, small names, guys, like amateur guys, every single fighter I've ever met as like the nicest person ever in the world. I mean, I've never met a nicer person than a guy who can really hurt me if I really wanted them to. Right. Like, they're the absolute nicest people I've ever met.

Yeah, yeah. And again, that kind of just that throws away any kind of assumptions that we have about, you know, about people that are that are in the field. And I think when you and I have talked on our pre call, you know, understanding again, the journey that a lot of them have had and they've been willing to kind of, you know, some of them have been willing to be able to share what that journey is, and we start to see just how often and how much more prevalent trauma is, and most of our backgrounds in our lives and guide us, you know, in ways, you know, hopefully to better outcomes for ourselves and for other people. But it's really, I think that's an enriching part of it. Now, where does the Eric Allen show them fit into all of this? Like, when and why did you decide to go in that direction to?

Yeah, I've always had been an entrepreneurial guy, I think I mean, 10 years old, I had my probably 10 lawn mowing clients. And then 11 years old, had the same clients for two years in a row. And I was literally, this is funny, but I literally push a lot more uphill for about a mile. And people think I was joking, I had to push. You know, the furthest guide I had, I started with him and work my way back. But he was about a mile away. And he lived at the top of this hill. And so that was I started early on. And so I've always been intrigued by entrepreneurs. You know, an early night, you know, when I'm early age, got to connect with direct marketing and network marketing and stuff like that. And it wasn't for me, it is for some people, it was for me. And then in 2018, I came across guy named Ed, my lead online, I was like, holy crap, man, this guy is awesome. Whatever he's saying is good. his guests, everything was just like hitting home for me. And then he issued this challenge in 2018. To Hey, if you're following me, of my 1 million followers, I want you to submit a one minute story of what passion, what's your passion, what drives you? Why do you want to be successful, and I submitted this video. And two months later, he announced me as the winner, I was the winner of Ed my let's max out challenge. And so I got to have a phone call with him. And it changed my life forever. I got to it supposed to be 20 minutes, we talked for 30. And the guy is like down to earth, like shut everything out, was very, very intrigued in what I had going on. He gave me some great tips gave me some personal contacts here in this area that I love that that he knows in. And it just, that's what really inspired me to start my Eric Allen shows, I want to talk with entrepreneurs, world changers and success minded people and kind of tie in that show and I want to know, I'm sure is gonna want to get punched in the face, hopefully not physically, but like, we get nose we get rejected, we get shut down all the time. Why do we keep fighting? Why do keep going for that success?

Yeah, that's fascinating. And I and I feel like you I have been kind of entrepreneurial minded, you know, my whole, you know, my whole life too. And I, you know, and I reflect on it, you know, the differences between entrepreneurs, you know, entrepreneurship is risky, it requires a density. You know, I think that, you know, many of us that have had these traumatic experiences, to be honest with you that have learned to fight and survive, and then realize that we didn't die in the process. Yeah, makes us have the stomach, you know, the iron gut to be able to go and go, I'm gonna stick my neck out, I'm gonna buy 3000 shirts, and we're gonna just see what happens. And you know, what, it didn't work out. But that didn't mean I quit, I'm going to try it and reframe it. And, and I think that, you know, that's one of those upsides, you know, that of our journeys, you know, depending on what we've gone through, that really does, you know, make us ripe for it. And you know, and what I've discovered along my journey, though, however, is that because we get so used to the redo, the redo the redo, we can sometimes keep sabotaging ourselves, because of the quest for the redo and the quest to survive, and the quest to win one more thing, and I failed, but I'm coming back. And that in itself can be an addiction, you know, that can actually undermine, you know, entrepreneurs and stuff. Yep. But it is. You know, are there entrepreneurs that come from really functional homes and safety and security? Yes, there are those but man the hustlers, the hustlers, we've, you know, we've been through some stuff, and we keep trying to and we bring it out into, you know, into our businesses. Is that some of what you've seen or experienced with some of the folks that you've talked to?

Totally, yeah, I mean, I rarely, like I talked to entrepreneurs, a lot of them, they didn't come from rich families, they didn't come from the successful, you know, marriage or anything like that they grew up and they had these stories that motivated them. You know, one of the things I have my wall is the purpose of pain is to move us into action. It's not to make us suffer. And I think when they see that, or they they realize that like, hey, this, is this something that's helping me in my journey, then they're gonna keep fighting. And yeah, I do see that. And a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, for me, like, I get up at 4am, six days a week, you got to be consistent with it, you got to you got to make sure that you're always fighting for my for your dreams and things like that. So I think as entrepreneurs, one thing that we have in common is, hopefully successful entrepreneurs, we're just always consistent on towards working towards a goal. Mm hmm.

Yep, totally. Now, as we're wrapping this up here, what advice would you have for somebody that's actually listening to the show that hasn't considered faith is maybe a piece to add into their life and their journey? I mean, what would you say to somebody that's, you know, again, like on the fence, I can imagine some people they're like, man, I know, I don't hear good things about church. You know, I hear bad things about Christians, Muslims, whatever it is that they may be experiencing. Sure. You know, how would you talk to them and give them some advice on something to consider for themselves and whether or not maybe heading out because my show is released on Sunday? Yeah. So if somebody wanted to just decide to go find the, you know, what should they look for? What kinds of questions should they ask what should They be thinking about, you know, I

think, put a grading scale together. And I say this because it's what my wife and I did when we church shocked, we moved around Idaho, we started going around to different churches and kind of going, Okay, do we like that? What's not? And I think if you're thinking about going to church, go to a church that feels right. And I know that sounds like, Well, how do I know what to write, you have to go and just check it out and your walk in and immediately you'll know. Yep, these guys actually are not being fake, or Yep, these guys are kind of being fuzzy. I don't know if I want to be here. You know, but I think if you want to grow in your faith, whether whatever religion that is, do some research, find out exactly what the roots are of that church, or what their, what their beliefs are. And if that aligns with what you think you've got going on, then go test out, go to this church route, this church route this one, see what they feel like, yeah, I think that you're probably going to run across anybody at any church at any point, that's going to be judgmental, and hypocritical. And you got to go, okay, is that person the big picture? Or is that person just somebody that's not really there. So go find some church, go find an area, go find people that are living the life that you want, whatever faith that is, and see if you can connect with them. If they're aligning with you, that's probably something that's calling you to go that way. Maybe like deep dive a little bit more into it. But you're gonna have to get uncomfortable to get comfortable in those areas.

Mm hmm. I agree. I agree. And you actually go to a non denominational church, which is actually this amazing change in religion, right, which isn't having it around the strip, you know, the Scripture and the structure of certain denominations, that actually kind of being more in touch with, again, the bigger vision of this higher power. And, you know, and that the universal message is really love. I mean, it's what I like to think of it is like, that's a universal message is it is about connection, and a positive energetic connections between each of us. And we can call that and define that as love.

Yep, I agree. Yep. I mean, again, love people where they are they're at. And I think that that what if everybody just loved people, that man, the world would be so much of a better place?

Absolutely. Well, Eric, this has been an awesome conversation. I've really enjoyed speaking with you and getting to know you and hearing your stories of the Pacific Northwest and the Seattle area. During your time, where can everybody find you and find your shows and reach out to you if they want to get into your circle or engage with you because you offer consulting, you know, you offer entrepreneurial help? for people, right?

Yeah, so I, anybody who's thinking about doing a podcast, I run courses on really starting that idea of a podcast, a launch in that podcast, and we cover everything, it's a live training with myself that I do. I'm going to be launching another course here very soon. We just completed the last one here just about a month ago. So I'm prepping for the next one. So anybody considered considering doing that, but Eric lm media calm is my website, I'm very active on Instagram. It's just Eric, Eri k. g. Allen. And that's, you know, I respond to all comments, all the AMS, if anybody has questions, they can certainly shoot me a message on there, and happy to kind of help or point you in the right direction, if that's something that's not in my wheelhouse there. But yeah, I just love connect with people.

Yeah, cool, awesome. And all the links will be in the podcast notes. So if you didn't catch what he just said, just go ahead and hit that button. In your podcast notes, and including links, it'll take you to his show. So you can listen to his interviews that he does with other people and, and get to hear other stories from other people and what their journeys are like to add into our collective knowledge of of what we know about humans and grow in that way, right?

Yep. Absolutely. And I apologize, I forgot to say the show's come out every Friday is the Eric Allen show. And every Saturday is the top rated a show and it goes out on all formats, video and audio.

Well, awesome. That's great. Well, again, this has been amazing. I really do appreciate your time, I appreciate you being able to be a person who can step into their power and share their story with others so that people can learn and I appreciate you talking about you know, your journey and how it was, you know, finding it through Christ finding it through faith that allowed you to be able to really grow and, and continue to grow right, like we're always growing right? Yep. So thank you.

Thank you so much. This was a great, great opportunity. I love your show. You're very professional. People need to be listened to your show. Definitely go check this out.